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#51 2014-08-06 07:32:03

Driller
Moderator

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

Yop, we added you ie7.

Btw, if anyone made a mistake they can PM me, so I can delete that particular vote.

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#52 2014-08-15 13:24:38

MisiUx
Map maker

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

Hey.
I think I jump long enough to calculated Level of Maps. Also I'd like to help you Guys with that. So I just wanted to ask if I could get addet too?

Cheers!


But it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward!

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#53 2014-08-15 13:30:29

Samchun
Map maker

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

:< nou nou nou

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#54 2014-08-15 13:56:23

Driller
Moderator

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

Yop, you are approved MisiuX zen

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#55 2014-08-15 15:41:11

Hugo
Moderator

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

STOP IMPERSONATING ME DRILLER§§ MY ENGRISH BETTER THAN DAT!!! upmdr

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#56 2018-10-13 19:38:08

AHMAD_H
Map maker

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

Hey guys:D
I have 2 questions regarding the rating system
-Do you rate a map according to the hardest jump it has ,or do you take the average difficulty of all the jumps?
-leets, leet jumps, extra jumps, bonus jumps, secret jumps, etc... aren't considered at all when rating, right?

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#57 2018-10-14 06:27:42

X-RaY
Moderator

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

Hey Ahmad_H

In my opinion, you'd rate a map by indicating the overall difficulty to finish the map. For example: for an easy map of 10+ jumps, with one medium difficulty jump, I'd still say `easy`, since that 1 somewhat more difficult jump isn't relevant to tip the scale to a medium difficult map.

Rating is hard for certain maps: jupiter (multiple ways), or maps starting out easy but getting insanely hard throughout the map.

For rating maps getting harder along the way, are there some opinions, thoughts about that by anyone else?


“Don’t judge everyone else by your limited experience.” - Carl Sagan

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#58 2018-10-14 16:51:52

AHMAD_H
Map maker

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

In the same example you gave about the 10+ easy jumps + 1 medium jump map, you might not be able to finish the map unless you have medium skills or get a fluke on the medium jump (and imo requiring a fluke to finish a map would indicate that the map is still above your current level), so wouldn't it be more logical to rate the map as medium?
I mean, when you check the ratings to see what maps you can possibly finish with your current  level (say 40), maps that have at least 1 jump with a difficulty of 80+ are out of the question for you even if they have all the other jumps under 40 difficulty
Take icygrip and arcadium for example
I can finish arcadium which is rated 88, while I'm stuck on j9 on icygrip for a while now even though it is rated 75
icygrip has some easier jumps before and after j9 (which feels like 90+) and killer said that he took the average difficulty when he rated it and that would make sense, but it is a fact that I still can't finish the map when I'm at 85+level in general
It is still a fact that there are personal differences (i.e: I ace at circle jumping and you ace at wjs for example), but that gets solved as more and more ppl rate a given map, so we get a more accurate rating by the time, but I think that we should consider the hardest jump when we rate a map, or else, we need a rating based on the range of difficulty which will look something like this [e.x: jupiter (10-80)] and that would be the best way imo

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#59 2018-10-15 00:50:26

samsepi0l
Jumper

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

this is not even defined. no doubt, it's highly subjective. i asked many times.

so let's give it a try...

first we have to define what does it mean to complete a map? here it goes:

A map is completed when you pass from spawn point to end point.

as you can conclude the definition doesn't include leets. you want 100% of map? join it, reach finish room or eqivalent and be happy. any action which is not required to reach finish room is extra, non-mandatory.

now, i hope you agree, level difficulty is the answer to the question: how hard is to complete the map?

yeah, i know, it has flaws like consider map which has 9 monkey-level jumps and 1 superhard. but who makes such jump maps? let's forget about outliers, they are statistically insinigificant.

to define map difficulty we have to set up bounds. let's downgrade a map to one jump. the easiest jump you can imagine is flat, few units long surface where you don't have to even jump. just walk trough circular room so no matter what direction key you press you pass it eventually with probability close to 1. such jump is level 1. a level 0 jump is where spawn point = end point wink harder part is to define upper bound. as it is likely that deciding whether average jump (or sequence of jumps) is possible in automated way is NP problem (but even if we could that there is much harder question: how hard is the jump, having both bounds defined?). if we had starting point, ending point, then calculate every possible movements, we'd have probability of passing a jump. the more possible ways to complete a jump (in other words the more mistakes like wrong angles you can commit during jump) the easier it is. but it's computationally hard. we have to rely on human factor. obviously only the best jumpers can give the answer. they DEFINE upper bound. is elfix or icywonderland already in your mind? or dayfee maybe. or you may think what if i added few slide plats to dayfee. would it still be possible? can you (dis)prove it? or if i added 100 slide plats? thet it would definitely not be possible, but you can't prove it. see, the upper bound is hard to define. it's open.

consider classic walljumps map. there were many variations created: walljumps strong, walljumps pro, walljumps real deal. jumpers are evolving.. reaching new goals. difficulty is based on current average skill level of all jumpers. but they gain skill, so overall difficulty should be decreasing (assuming no newcomers which is true for this game tongue), but on the other hand new, harder maps will be created. the upper bound is fluent. there is no upper bound.

in that case i conclude 0-100% scale is flawed. there is no 100%. but we use it cuz it's human readable.

so there are few options:

1) continue using current scale. map levels will be changing in time as community evolves. create tools for voting, maybe introduce "jumping commitee" which regularly updates map levels. yep, ridiculus in current game activity
2) find automated way to determine jump difficulty (hard af, likely impossible in universe lifetime given current knowledge and computational power)
3) find another scale.

i will give 3) a try. the goal is to have simple and precise scale. but wait, precie? let's think about real life scenarios where you choose task difficulty. think of some other, single player game. at start you often choose difficulty which is easy, mendium, hard. sometimes you pick 1 of 5 choices. how hard is to climb particular mountain? this is easier a bit cuz mountains are not created as frequently as jump maps, but still i guess there are few levels of difficulties. think of K2 which is hard. think of climbing K2 in winter which is leet.

having no possibility to make exact calculation the only way is to categorise map to a category with some probability. the fewer categories the easier the process of categorization. so i propose to stick with very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard as long as we won't have reliable method to compute jump possibilities.

wall of text cuz bored.

Last edited by samsepi0l (2018-10-15 00:54:27)

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#60 2018-10-15 02:43:20

Rai
Jumper

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

samsepi0l wrote:

1) continue using current scale. map levels will be changing in time as community evolves. create tools for voting, maybe introduce "jumping commitee" which regularly updates map levels. yep, ridiculus in current game activity

Thankfully i only read this part xd, and agree with it. When I started jumping and was consulting the level of the maps available, I found it pretty accurate, maybe one or other would feel "different"(harder or easier) from the level it was ranked.
I would suggest if players feel that a map is with an innaccurate rank, make a review of it, maybe by a pool or if possible, save the data from the current rank-votes, erase it and allow a new voting. This way, you can compare the changes and analyze if it was worth.

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#61 2018-10-15 02:55:55

Rai
Jumper

Re: Rating maps: I wanna rate too!

X-RaY wrote:

In my opinion, you'd rate a map by indicating the overall difficulty to finish the map.

/\

Don't forget that some maps were ranked years ago, so the difficulty/rank felt in a certain time will be different than nowadays, since jumping evolves as well tongue

(sry double post but edit option ends pretty fast xd)

Last edited by Rai (2018-10-15 02:56:19)

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